Stan Mitchell
Well, I believe them. The oldest building in the world is in say the Shetland, Orkney in the north of Scotland. And a storm from the Atlantic uncovered these buildings and there’s a whole kind of village but the reckon that about 6000 years old and you can go to And you can visit them and look at them. But I have to say to you guys, and I was fortunate when I was at sea, that I was on a ship that visited Philadelphia. And it was the last ship to be tied up on just before midnight on the third of July in the Bicentennial year. And we had the pleasure of spending a week tied up in adult doing nothing because you guys all went into party mode, you know, and we loved it. It was fantastic. And the thing I would say to you in America, you sell your history, so well present it so well. That it really it’s a standard for us to emulate. And the problem we’ve got in a country like Scotland in terms of buildings, is we’ve got too many of them and In doing actually just beside that castle that’s in the background of my picture. And the excavated piece of land beside the primary school to build a nursery there, we’re going to build a nursery school. And when they excavated it, they found the remains of a Roman hospital. Oh wow, when they’re when the whole of the UK was invaded by the Romans, and the Romans, of course, never got to the north of Scotland, but they managed to get up to we are doing is which is just at the top of the central belt. So and, and when they uncovered the the ark, archaeologist came in and mapped it all out and recorded it all and then they buried it again. And that’s at a school because they didn’t have any resources left to do anything with it. There’s too many of these things and you know, So we have a different problem.
Greg Owens
That’s, that’s fascinating, right? Because like I didn’t realize Rome had gotten that far north.
Stan Mitchell
Yeah. The Romans invaded England, as you know, today, and they got up to the New Castle, the border of Scotland and England basically. And at the time, the Emperor was Hadrian. So you can go to D and walk along Hadrian’s Wall. The they built a wall right across the country because of these mad Scotsman that they couldn’t conquer.
Greg Owens
They couldn’t conquer. Yeah, they ran into the mountains in the train that fought in the mountains were unbelievably fierce.
Stan Mitchell
And then that was emperor Hadrian. And then after him, there was an emperor code unto nine. And he thought, No, I can do this where Hadrian couldn’t. So they tried again and they got a bit further north and then they had to build Antony’s wall. So we’ve actually got two walls that struggle, the whole of the country where the Romans realized this is as far as they’re gonna get, and the walls were built to keep the Scots who were used to in those days were cold packs to keep them out it wasn’t the other. So we’ve got two walls that you can come and visit and see in Scotland.
Greg Owens
so much great, so much great history there. And so you and you mentioned earlier on about Legionnaires disease and other so I can only imagine that as these buildings have been staying vacant, that they’re like you said, there’s all kinds of new problems sort of like, like, like I know in the air industry when if a plane sits too long, they call it hangar rot, right? What kinds of things have you guys run into or what kind of challenges from the buildings being empty and not being utilized? Your theme?
Stan Mitchell
Well, most of our buildings that we manage, we have managed to convince our clients that we can ignore these buildings. These buildings need to be maintained, whether people are there using them or not. And if you don’t, then you’ll get an infestation of insects and bugs. If you don’t, you’ll get bacteria that will grow and develop within air conditioning trunking ventilation trunking you’ll get problems with your filters on your ACS, etc, etc. And you’ll get obviously, the bacteria that can potentially grow in the water systems where they’re stagnant, stagnant water systems with the right temperature or just a breeding ground for Legionnaires disease. And so there’s lots of things that they haven’t these buildings haven’t been maintained and systems are not kept operating. You have more problems than you need. To have. So fortunately, most of our clients have listened to that kind of advice. And we’re not aware of any that have any of those problems because we were kind of focused on them anyway. But what then happens is as people start to come back then then you get the hygiene problems and instances of we’ve had one or two buildings where individuals have actually caught the virus. So then you’ve got to do a complete shutdown and could do a complete deep clean and start the process again, you know,
Greg Owens
yeah, yeah, we’ve run into that a few times as we’ve been painting, all of a sudden, all projects come to a halt on that building. And and we have to wait for cleaning wait for wait a bit to see who else might have caught COVID and then and then proceed slowly and go back to work because you know, and as you know, there’s like these we run into these bottlenecks with within the construction industry where Trying to just use the elevators to get to different floors and go to work, you know, and staggering the start times has been a big has been a really big deal. And it’s been more we have to be more on point with that. How do you see, I know in this, you know that you know, you’re in 21 different countries? Ah, what are you seeing how buildings are coming back and coming back online, and then you must have some that are like way ahead of the curve, and some that are lagging? What are what are you seeing out there and what kind of trends?
Stan Mitchell
Well, we’re not seeing any particular trend. And for the reasons that I explained earlier, you know, the different variations in the rules and etc, etc, and the different approaches from different organizations. And I was talking yesterday about two contracts that we’ve got here in Scotland. And one of them has quite a few buildings and it’s a Scottish based organization and They’ve said they’re not pulling anybody back in until next year, just they’ve made a decision, clean cut, and which actually is helpful for us. Because we know what we’ve got, we know know what we need to do in terms of an arm’s length regime to keep the things running and everything functional. And then we’ve got another building in Scotland, which is owned by an English based organization, which the English government is kind of pushing people back into buildings, they want to get the economy back up and running as fast as possible. And so for that organization, we’ve had to be fully functional. They’re all there, people are back working right now. And yet, we’ve got the second wave of COVID going on. So I’ll put money on it. They won’t be working in three, four or five weeks time because something is going to go wrong and we have to throw them all back out again, but and yet she it’s a game of chance at the moment. And the chance to bet is how many of us are going to behave sensibly and take the precautions that we all know we should? And how many are not. It’s it’s all the fault of Katrina’s generation. The other ones that are the troublemakers, they don’t listen. They don’t listen to the advice that they get. They all know better. There’s not right.
Greg Owens
Yeah, it’s interesting because, you know, if you look at the numbers, at least here in America, you know, I think 40% of the deaths are over 81 years old, are hit. And as you get down to, to under the under 30, there’s hardly anybody has died, right and I just turned 50. And even in that age category, not that many throughout the entire United States. I think it was around 8000 total. Right, which isn’t that many when we have 300 and 60 million people, and I hear what you’re saying no to because they’re they’re rolling the dice and they’re taking chances. And I know that the school system here is is going back online, they’re trying to right California wants to get the kids back to school and that kind of stuff in certain schools are, are ahead of others and trying to go back. And but we have I have a feeling that one kid dies of COVID and they’re right back to square one. Right and that are you seeing that kind of thing in throughout Europe and
Stan Mitchell
yeah, there’s a good example in Scotland of that the city of Aberdeen had to go back in lockdown about three weeks ago. And and the reason was that when they relaxed and the pubs were allowed to open again, and I mean everybody went crazy all the pub goers are all filled, there is no social distancing at all and So, the COVID virus went crazy in the city of Aberdeen. And it’s not so much that the younger generation will die from it, but the younger generation will share it. Yeah, they’ll share it to their grandparents, they’ll share it to people who are vulnerable, you know, and, and that’s what happened in Aberdeen. And there was some deaths as a result of it. And it basically all happened in one weekend, where they opened the pubs and, you know, it’s too easy to happen. So we relaxed too quickly at our peril, I think and then, folks, the younger generation may be the ones that themselves might not be at risk. But what they’re doing here now in Scotland, they’re, they’re reminding them that their bubbles their families, potentially are the ones that will get at risk who will might not survive because they happen to pass on the virus. But our schools here are already busy.
Greg Owens
Oh, yeah, I know social distancing at school and they’re wearing masks or how is that? Yeah,
Stan Mitchell
the masks when the wear on when they’re on the public transport, they wear masks when they’re walking from classroom to classroom, they’ve got to wear masks. And, and I think to a certain extent, their social distancing. But they’re, what they’re doing is instead of secondary peoples who might day visit five different classrooms, what they’re doing is no, this is your classroom, you’re not moving anymore. It’s the teachers that are gonna move it’s, you know, so they’re having to manage it logistically in a different way to try and minimize that. The mixing of people and the hygiene implications that come with it. Hey,
Greg Owens
do you have so it’s interesting as I sort of read articles on COVID, and one of the standout countries has been Sweden, doing things completely different up up there. And, and I keep I have this feeling like America is doing the same thing, but we just didn’t do it intentionally. Like, you know, the way the way things are rolling, we just had the Labor Day weekend. And that’s like the last weekend hurrah, partying, that kind of thing in the USA. And I have a feeling like two weeks from now we’re gonna see another whole spike. Do you have any organizations in in any or any buildings that you’re doing within Sweden? And what’s your What’s your thoughts on how, how the different countries have ruled out these rules and what you’ve seen
Stan Mitchell
from the ones that are have been least affected in Europe, and the secret appears to have been, they were very proactive on testing. And that we were not in the UK. We were not proactive on testing. Testing is still not covering everybody. You’ve got to have the symptoms and you’ve got to have stayed for so many days before. They’re gonna let you test and I think it’s because there’s a lack of testing kits available. But what Sweden and some of the others did in Europe was day one, the played a very strict testing regime that was available to anybody and everybody. And now that seems to have been what has made the difference because then they were dealing with a virus that they knew where it was as in the people, right and, and they weren’t keeping their fingers crossed that the people that had it where it doesn’t show it. So for two weeks, and we’re out there, spreading it around and sharing it with everybody. And I think that’s the biggest problem blessing when people look back and when countries look back, that lack of preparedness around the testing seems to have been one of the key factors. Now, interestingly, from a facilities management point of view, I’ll give you some information and I happen to be The chairman of the ISO committee that creates standards and facilities management. And we have 40 countries involved in creating standards in FM, to make sure so that we help each other within the FM communities. And America, by the way, is a very productive member of that committee. And my American colleagues are always there and have lots of contribution to make. But something we started back in July as there will be a new ISO standard, which it will be called 41,017. And it will be emergency preparedness for epidemics and pandemics. So what we’re doing is, it won’t be for us but for the next generations of practitioners. we’re capturing all the knowledge and experiences that we can articulate. No Then and putting them into a document. And that document will become a guide. So that the facilities managers of the future when the next COVID pandemic comes along, because remember, this is this one we’re dealing with is number 19. So a number 20 comes along, and hopefully they’ll be better prepared and from a management of facilities point of view. With a bit of luck, that’ll help.
Greg Owens
Oh, that’s wonderful. You’re collating all that kind of information and best practices and putting it into one standard. Yeah. Because as the, as the knowledge evolves, you’re adding into it. How do people find out more about that standard? And where would they go to look into that?
Stan Mitchell
Well, they can go and look at it yet because we’re just starting it. And so and it takes a bit of time. It’ll be over a year before it’s already more likely two years for a typical international And then so wouldn’t be too much help to us today. And but as I say, hopefully, by collating that knowledge and that information, we will all be better prepared for the future.
Greg Owens
Yeah, but if somebody wanted to help or add to it or be involved in that, is there is it which organization is that through?
Stan Mitchell
Ah, right. Okay. And within the US, your national standards body is called ANSI ANSI. And unsee has what we call a mirror committee. And people from all over the US join in that committee. And they they collate it the American knowledge and information and experiences. And then somebody from that committee comes to my meetings, where we have 40 other committees represented. And that’s how we build an international standard.
Greg Owens
Wow. And so
Stan Mitchell
ANSI has On an FM committee as part of their structure, and anybody can go and knock on the door of it and say, Hey, I’d like to get involved, I’d like to contribute. And you’ll be more than welcome.
Greg Owens
And ANSI is very involved in all of our standards for safety. Absolutely. Yeah. And then, sort of as we as we get close to wrapping this up, I’m always interested in how the younger generation or people that are interested in into in facilities, facilities, management, that kind of stuff could learn more, get started. I know you also mentioned you do educational things, what would be a good like, starting point for somebody that wants to get excited, there’s it’s such a rich industry, as you know, and you’ve gone through all these different positions and that kind of stuff within it, you know, and once upon a time, it was just building engineers and then the word facilities manager came in encompasses so much more of the entire ecospace There’s a lot of people that don’t even know that this is such a great career option in a lot of ways. So your thoughts on that?
Stan Mitchell
I think it’s the most exciting, challenging, frustrating, rewarding discipline to be involved. And it’s all of those things. You got to have broad shoulders if you’re going to get into FM because most people don’t come up and pat you on the back and see, well done, the lights are still burning in or the floors are still clean. You know, they usually tell you when the lights are not working. But anyway, and it’s a great question. And if I was talking to your community in the US, I would recommend two things if somebody was keen to get involved. Every year in Baltimore, there’s the NFMT Conference that takes place usually in March. And it’s canceled this year and they tried to reschedule it, but it’s no canceled until next year. That is the biggest FM and Building conference in the world, and it’s free, so people only have to go there and turn up and find that accommodation. And you will have lots of variety of speakers who will be sharing the knowledge and that information. I’ve attended the last three I think or so. And with a bit of luck, I’ll be the next one as well. And the other thing that I would recommend is there’s an organization educational and training package. And the organization is called ProFM, ProFM. And if people Google that, and you can do it remotely, you can do it in classrooms. You can do it in coach led remote learning or whatever. And what they did, which I thought was excellent was the took a blank sheet of paper they brought together what they call a commission. And the reason I know about it was they invited me to help. And so I was part of the Commission. And they said, What is FM today? What is FM not what it was 10 years ago? What is it today? What does it encompass? Who strategic is it, etc, etc. And they brought in people from all over the world to be this commission. And we created something called a body of knowledge. And there are 23 disciplines, I should know that off by heart, but 20 something disciplines that every FM should know. And there are training programs which you can, as I said, you can do remotely. And the best I’ve seen in the market. There’s lots of other training organizations around and I’m not, they do excellent training. Don’t get me wrong. But the way that ProFM have packaged their courses and very easy for somebody to step into To what is FM and is it something I’ll be good at? Is it something I can develop? And every fMRI no can develop their skills and competencies in FM because it’s such a diverse and broad role and responsibility.
Greg Owens
Oh, that’s great. ProFM ProFM. Yeah. Any sort of books or apps or anything like that, that you’ve discovered during this last like five months that you could recommend?
Stan Mitchell
No, I haven’t had a minute to stop and read a book or go go for a weekend off. We have big 100% full on ever since lockdown ever since February.
Greg Owens
It is here that with so many disciplines, yeah. Because it’s it’s so novel and new and you’re just researching is it that is that A piece or is it because of the change of being getting it’s, you know, having to work from home and you’re not trying because you’re not spending all that time in Uber going to the airport, going to a hotel, checking it night?
Stan Mitchell
is absolutely right.
Greg Owens
And I’m like, Where did all the time go?
Stan Mitchell
Yeah, absolutely. Right. And what we have found our I have found certainly is we have a lot of clients who don’t seem to realize there’s actually a pandemic around right now and expecting you to just get on and carry on with normal, but also our team, a lot on our back office team, the team that does all the admin, the finance and all that good stuff. They’re all working from home, and actually managing them remotely like that. takes more time and effort we found that actually all being in a building where you you can talk to each other easily and explain things easier, you know, so our time has most definitely increased. During the lockdown, and but as I say, our we’ve, we had a call this morning from my client that saying Why haven’t you mobilized already? And I said, Well, you know, travel was a bit of a challenge and from one country to another, you know, and and eventually the acknowledged Yeah. Okay, you know, they still give us a hard time because we haven’t done what we said we would do back in February, you know,
Greg Owens
I keep having to remind our clients that there’s a pandemic, and, you know, it’s almost like we’re on Island times where things just take longer. It’s like, Hey, you know, there’s a line at the paint store, we have to wait to get the things right. Or, or we’re trying to get like we had two vehicles broke down, and we’re like, we can’t get a hold of our, our mechanic. Well, turns out they’ve had COVID their, their facility and had to shut the whole thing down, right, like so. I mean, there’s things like that where we might have to constantly be like, Hey, remember, this is challenge.
Stan Mitchell
But that, you know, that’s where we are. And, and I don’t think going forward, it’s not so much about planning for the new norm. It’s just planning for the next norm. Nothing’s nothing’s gonna go back to what it was. And nothing is going to stay static for very long this this has been just the the norm in terms of Business and Commerce and the use of real estate and what facilities management is all about. And I’m a great believer that in every negative, there’s a positive, you’ve just got to go and look for it. And for me, the negative is obvious, but the positive is, facilities management is under the spotlight. Yeah, the whole world is waiting on us doing our job demonstrating our professionalism. This is a great opportunity for FM to raise the bar and the profile of what we do and how we do it. All of your listeners out there should really take a step back and think, am I is my profile up there? Am I giving the right message in the conferences, to my bosses and my clients and my customers? Because this is a great opportunity. And that’s the positive. And so true.
Greg Owens
Well, thank you. This has been an absolute pleasure talking to you this morning. Well, this evening for you. We’ve had Stan Mitchell here, coming from the United Kingdom, CEO of Key Facilities Management International. Thank you so much, Stan.
Stan Mitchell
Okay, my my final comment is to all of you keep safe. You have fires burning that you don’t want to have burning. So we’re watching and you have our
Greg Owens
best wishes. I can only imagine what you think of California. We seem to be the disaster state in a lot of ways. For sure.
Stan Mitchell
So keep safe, everyone.
Greg Owens
Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much.
Conclusion
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